DmC demo

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#201 Post by ChaserTech » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:27 am

Psychochild wrote:
Exacally. Keep in mind tho, the "SSSensational Meter" is broken already.
Someone reminded me recently that the S/SS/SSS meters all share the same 4x style points multiplier in DMC4. As Dante never loses his S-Rank once it's attained short of taking damage, DmC's style system is effectively the exact same one as DMC4's with extra multipliers tacked on for each S rank.

In other words, short of Demon Dodge effectively upending the entire purpose of the style system to a fair greater extent than even distorted Real Impacts, the transparency Ninja Theory was encouraging in its style system bit them in the ass from an overzealous fanbase ready to tear them a new one.

/our bad, Ninja Theory.
//but your game still offends me.
I explained in another forum how easy it is to perform Demon Dodging.

It has at least twice the amount of frames to use Royal Gaurding.
Enemies are too predictable, making Demon Dodging piss easy to do.
Not only that but it grants an easy SSS rank.

One person's logical response was that it is based on a risk/reward system. And that I was "too good".
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#202 Post by Shadow » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:45 am

Le whut. I'm the worst DMC player on this board, and even I can perform demon dodges with my eyes closed on SoS. <_<
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#203 Post by Crazy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:15 pm

I haven't even played the game and just from -seeing- the way the Demon Dodge and enemy attacks work I can't imagine not being able to pull it off unless the input itself is similar to an extended BlazBlue aerial combo.

And even then, I might just have enough time to input the command. Unless, of course, I fall asleep waiting for the enemy to realize I'm there...
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#204 Post by Psychochild » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Crazy wrote:I haven't even played the game and just from -seeing- the way the Demon Dodge and enemy attacks work I can't imagine not being able to pull it off unless the input itself is similar to an extended BlazBlue aerial combo.

And even then, I might just have enough time to input the command. Unless, of course, I fall asleep waiting for the enemy to realize I'm there...
Similar timing to Bayonetta's Witch Time dodge. The only problem is that due to Dante not having even a fraction of Bayonetta's cancelable frames, most of the time you need to stop attacking/go into Prop facing away from the enemy and stand there like a dip-shit waiting for the enemy to attack to be able to dodge it successfully.

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#205 Post by Crazy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:46 pm

Bayonetta's Witch Time Dodge was ridiculously easy to master once I figured out what the timing actually was. It's completely ridiculous to say I have to drop aggro and stare at the enemy to dodge. I'm an aggressive guy when I play games, I don't have time to wait for someone to attack me.
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#206 Post by Phoenon » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:14 pm

Good thing the enemies attacks are telegraphed to hell and back.

Let that Demon Dodge pop, watchin' that Style Meter drop or rise I guess...
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#207 Post by Oreo » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:30 pm

Psychochild wrote:Does that require a clean transition between waves for the style counter to possibly reset (I.E. some rooms spawning more enemies in when mob count grows low like with first scarecrow room of M12)?
afaik, yes. The main difference between DMC4 and DmC's style system being that in DMC4, when you're locked in a room and need to clear it to pass, you can lose style rank between waves of enemies. In DmC, it preserves whatever your rank is until you can leave the room.
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#208 Post by Phoenon » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:16 pm

I just got the internet back after a few months finally, downloaded the DmC demo.

To be honest, I'm actually having some trouble getting Stinger to both come out, as well as hit the enemy I actually want to hit. I swear, I'll do a really quick forward forward melee motion several times, but he'll just keep doing normal attacks, and sometimes he'll even do a Stinger right towards the camera directly away from the enemies.

This is way more frustrating than it should be, it's making me go out of my way not to use it.
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#209 Post by BassOmegaX » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:58 am

I don't know how people can do Stinger so often. I can't do the double motion on an analog stick. It doesnt feel right.

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#210 Post by Thin Red Paste » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:58 am

stinger mostly works for me, except that I keep trying to buffer the motion during other moves and that doesn't seem to work.
Fuck this shit, I'm going to bed.

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#211 Post by Oreo » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:09 am

For me, it finds the wrong target more often than not.
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#212 Post by Psychochild » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:58 am

Thin Red Paste wrote:stinger mostly works for me, except that I keep trying to buffer the motion during other moves and that doesn't seem to work.
The thing to keep in mind with this game is that there's a -lot- of input buffering going on. There's been a number of instances where I had Dante Angel Whip more than once instead of going from Angel Whip -> E&I spam because I tapped L2+Square twice during the first angel whip animation before going into normal square E&I mashing. You'd think the more recent gun inputs would overwrite the angel whip one, but it often doesn't. Same thing also happens with the angel/devil inputs when doing branching combos. Be more deliberate with your inputs.
stinger mostly works for me, except that I keep trying to buffer the motion during other moves and that doesn't seem to work.
Nah. When I start trying to heavily use Stinger or Streak, Dante will frequently enough stinger in the opposite direction of the input for reasons I don't understand making me not want to use the move at all. This happens both in situations where there's valid enemy targets on screen (You can see it happen in one of the PC gameplay videos), and even in the very start of the Under Watch demo where I push forward-forward melee and Dante stingers straight into the camera behind him.
I don't know how people can do Stinger so often. I can't do the double motion on an analog stick. It doesnt feel right.
You pretty much have a whole second to get the two forward inputs in, so take your time putting it in and it feels better. I agree with you though; it's a fucking shame seeing as how DMC4 had the best feeling Stinger/Million Stabs in it.

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#213 Post by Crazy » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:05 pm

All I'm saying is I'm pretty sure nobody had issues with the way a move would target or the input to perform the move worked in any of the former DMCs, even 2. I, at least, never had an issue making Dante perform a move on a target. Suddenly DmC comes around and this is an issue?

The fifth game in a series should not change the formula so much that new issues which never existed before become so rampant. Stinger has worked perfectly fine since DMC1, it worked in 2 and 3, and it was perfected in 4. Now we're in the fifth title and it suddenly, somehow, doesn't work? It is literally unacceptable.

It actually really annoys me that Ninja Theory thinks they're making a game worth buying when they can't even bother to make sure the staple moves of the series work, let alone work smoothly. What kind of incompetence does it take for this to happen? I don't understand how this game, which has a solid foundation to work with spanning across four direct predecessors in its own name, let alone in the genre itself, is having issues that the game which helped define the genre, the first title of the series itself, did not have.

Screw the script, screw the story, screw the design of Dante. All of that takes a backseat to making the game run smoothly and feel like a Devil May Cry. They dropped the ball on that horribly.
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#214 Post by Phoenon » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:14 pm

Huh, I perfected the Slurm Queen my first try on Nephilim.

The parry frames on Prop Shredder are completely insane, I nailed parrying her swipe 8 times in a row with ease until she was dead with no practice beforehand. Silly.
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#215 Post by Psychochild » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:20 pm

Oh, I'm not defending the game. It speaks volumes to their ineptitude when they can't be bothered to implement a proper lock-on in conjunction with the auto-lock because "It's not comfortable" when Bayonetta, one of the most highly regarded action games this generation did just that. Bayonetta featured a lock-on and Dodge on the right bumper and shoulder respectively and offered the alternate stinger input as well as combo strings that result in launches for an alternative to players who didn't want to fiddle with the lock-on but I guess Ninja Theory just knows better than Hideki Motherfucking Kamiya.

Edit: Bayonetta even gives auto-locked on enemies an on-screen icon to show players what Bayonetta's chasing after and will auto-correct stinger inputs even if you do something like back-back melee if there's one enemy left on screen.
The parry frames on Prop Shredder are completely insane, I nailed parrying her swipe 8 times in a row with ease until she was dead with no practice beforehand. Silly.
You know what's easier? Using the Arbiter's Demon Dodge, dodge through her hand, smack her with the three-hit normal arbiter combo, she'll crumple, then you hit her with another three hit normal combo. You get more style and damage exploiting Arbiter Demon Dodge (85% damage, SSS meter, 39k or so style points) than a single proper critical-hit parry (45% damage, SS meter, 16k points - even when you do it twice to clear her entire life bar, you end up at 32k style points making the parry a less-effective option).
Last edited by Psychochild on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#216 Post by Phoenon » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 pm

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"I think I should tell Donte what a Nephilim is about 15 times straight so he doesn't forget while mispronouncing Yamato."
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#217 Post by Psychochild » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:56 pm

Phoenon wrote:<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y1PHdxsjY9I?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y1PHdxsjY9I?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

"I think I should tell Donte what a Nephilim is about 15 times straight so he doesn't forget while mispronouncing Yamato."
Holy shit. I didn't think they'd do it, but they did.

Mundus is Dante's uncle.

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#218 Post by Crazy » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:02 pm

Psychochild wrote:Oh, I'm not defending the game. It speaks volumes to their ineptitude when they can't be bothered to implement a proper lock-on in conjunction with the auto-lock because "It's not comfortable" when Bayonetta, one of the most highly regarded action games this generation did just that. Bayonetta featured a lock-on and Dodge on the right bumper and shoulder respectively and offered the alternate stinger input as well as combo strings that result in launches for an alternative to players who didn't want to fiddle with the lock-on but I guess Ninja Theory just knows better than Hideki Motherfucking Kamiya.
The parry frames on Prop Shredder are completely insane, I nailed parrying her swipe 8 times in a row with ease until she was dead with no practice beforehand. Silly.
You know what's easier? Using the Arbiter's Demon Dodge, dodge through her hand, smack her with the three-hit normal arbiter combo, she'll crumple, then you hit her with another three hit normal combo. You get more style and damage exploiting Arbiter Demon Dodge (85% damage, SSS meter, 39k or so style points) than a single proper critical-hit parry (45% damage, SS meter, 16k points - even when you do it twice to clear her entire life bar, you end up at 32k style points making the parry a less-effective option).
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were defending them.
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#219 Post by Phoenon » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:11 am

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Those Harpy whatchamafaces are damn annoying, remind me of the Fallen in DMC3. The rate at which they use that invincible shield burst attack is obnoxious, kept getting hit by stupid things too, but I blame the input lag from my Dazzle that I used to record on.

Color coded enemies also take far too long to die.
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#220 Post by Thin Red Paste » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:15 am

i just did two runs for science.

first run i played totally legit. no style carryover glitch, absolutely no demon dodging.

second run I forgot the glitch but abused the fuck out of the demon dodge. the difference was very nearly 100k style points. 236k vs 328k.

NOTHING TO FIX.
Fuck this shit, I'm going to bed.

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#221 Post by Phoenon » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:22 pm

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Nothing to fix.
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#222 Post by Super Dante » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:57 pm

^fake, nobody would play this game for longer than 5 minutes

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#223 Post by Psychochild » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:49 am

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MVjA1Apk-Hg?hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MVjA1Apk-Hg?hl ... on=3&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Oh Alexx, you scamp.

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#224 Post by v4lor » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:11 pm

not fluid
Oh, it's definitely -some- kind of fluid.

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#225 Post by Oreo » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:24 pm

Psychochild wrote:Oh Alexx, you scamp.
Hi, I'm Alexx and I miss the point on a regular basis. You just don't understand my atheism.
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#226 Post by DelusionaryKiller » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:26 pm

Most moves are slower, choppier and clunkier in general. Something about combining moves isn't as right in DmC.
If you seen Brea's video, where she cancelled many "Trillion Stabs", it was slower than in DMC4, where you Guard Cancel Million Stab.
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#227 Post by Psychochild » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:51 pm

DelusionaryKiller wrote:Most moves are slower, choppier and clunkier in general. Something about combining moves isn't as right in DmC.
If you seen Brea's video, where she cancelled many "Trillion Stabs", it was slower than in DMC4, where you Guard Cancel Million Stab.
Dante had three things working for him.

1.)His persistent coat physics did a fair job of covering up a lot of the hard transitions in his animations without breaking his visual flow even when you're doing something drastic like going from Rebellion to Lucifer in a ground combo. Dino does not have this, as his coat is animated specifically for each move. This is obvious when you see Dante and Dino do Rebellion swings into E&I cancels.

/Nero's normal second swing is the exception, where Nero's in such an exaggerated posture to make Combo B work, there's no way to cleanly transition back to his default stance if you do a gun cancel there.

2.) Dante never actually stopped moving - Both him and Nero treat the weapons like they have weight and momentum behind their swings. Dino ignores this, instead stopping the flow of an animation to strike a pose at the end of every attack regardless of how hard you're mashing. Even when you lay off, he'll sit there with his arm outstretched and holding Rebellion behind him for ages before he starts to work his way back to his default stance while Dante will bring Rebellion back in almost immediately. Try the first swing of Rebellion for each respectively to see what I'm talking about.

3.)Dante's delayed combos take into account where the position of the weapon would be in its animations to activate the delayed combo. Dino doesn't as again he will sit there and pose for an eternity regardless if you're going for a branching combo or not, so all animations have the same starting point.

All of these makes for this odd staccato rhythm to all of Dino's movements where Dante and Nero always had a nice visual flow to everything he did.

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#228 Post by DelusionaryKiller » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:44 am

Thanks for clearing that out. It very weird how Dino fights, even Gow seems more fluid.
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#229 Post by Phoenon » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:03 pm

DelusionaryKiller wrote:Thanks for clearing that out. It very weird how Dino fights, even Gow seems more fluid.
I like to imagine that Donte is just a trailer trash drunk, and he's been drinking most of his life being on-and-off self-aware considering how he actually walks around naked in amusement parks with kids in it, getting pissed off when anything touches his trailer.

He's so intoxicated that he can barely swing his Rebellion and Axe without stumbling around, can't stop his constant obvious slurring/"ERRRE DEEMINZIN ERRY PURDASUSSIETY IN ERRY PURRDA DA WURLD" and is stubborn as hell about stupid things and can't stop his dumb trailer trash ass to stop slurring.

He's also a very unreasonable "demon killa" considering "AH GOTTA SAVE KAT, SHE STUCK ER NECK OUT FER US" and Vergin just gives up reasoning and is like "God fine fuck, we'll do it your way you drunk piece of shit".

I don't know, the story's already deviant-art fanfic-tier bullshit so...
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#230 Post by ChaserTech » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:30 pm

DelusionaryKiller wrote:Most moves are slower, choppier and clunkier in general. Something about combining moves isn't as right in DmC.
If you seen Brea's video, where she cancelled many "Trillion Stabs", it was slower than in DMC4, where you Guard Cancel Million Stab.
I hate using Trillion Stabs in DmC. It feels so unnatural. It's bad enough that the startup for Trillion Stabs is extremely slow (way slower than Million Stabs).
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#231 Post by ShadowRunner » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:35 pm

ChaserTech wrote:
DelusionaryKiller wrote:Most moves are slower, choppier and clunkier in general. Something about combining moves isn't as right in DmC.
If you seen Brea's video, where she cancelled many "Trillion Stabs", it was slower than in DMC4, where you Guard Cancel Million Stab.
I hate using Trillion Stabs in DmC. It feels so unnatural. It's bad enough that the startup for Trillion Stabs is extremely slow (way slower than Million Stabs).
I don't know why but games tend to be slower as time passes and more graphical advances are made (game wise). Does they make it for the sake of realisticity? I think DMC3 was faster than DMC4, and when DmC comes out, it'll be slower. Ouch?
I guess fans should ask for another turbo mode then.

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#232 Post by Psychochild » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:16 pm

ShadowRunner Daus wrote:
ChaserTech wrote:
DelusionaryKiller wrote:Most moves are slower, choppier and clunkier in general. Something about combining moves isn't as right in DmC.
If you seen Brea's video, where she cancelled many "Trillion Stabs", it was slower than in DMC4, where you Guard Cancel Million Stab.
I hate using Trillion Stabs in DmC. It feels so unnatural. It's bad enough that the startup for Trillion Stabs is extremely slow (way slower than Million Stabs).
I don't know why but games tend to be slower as time passes and more graphical advances are made (game wise). Does they make it for the sake of realisticity? I think DMC3 was faster than DMC4, and when DmC comes out, it'll be slower. Ouch?
...Noooooo?

I haven't really found that to be the case. For most games, the speed at which the game plays is often beneficial to the sort of experience they're shooting for. After all, Batman would look even more ridiculous than he already does in combat if he slid around the ground at thirty miles an hour. If anything, I've felt that the feel and movement in games have only gotten better as time's gone by regardless if they're gunning to be realistic or they're hyper-stylized experiences like Devil May Cry 4, Vanquish and Bayonetta.

DmC's just slower because it's a clumsier take on a series that typically feels really fast, smooth and responsive with even clumsier inputs, wonky gravity/movement physics and animations that were designed across the board to read well at a lower framerate.

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#233 Post by ChaserTech » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:24 am

Psychochild wrote: . . . wonky gravity/movement physics and animations that were designed across the board to read well at a lower framerate.
That right there is why I fear for the 60fps PC release. I feel as if the buffer window will be too generous, making it feel as if you're playing online on a HDTV with composite cables.

I've already made up my mind that I won't play this casual shitfest of a game. Especially since the combat system seems rather dull and boring. It reminds me of a toned down Bayonetta combat system that's slower, clunkier, more unresponsive, and less stylish.

Hell, I admire Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2's animations more than DmC. And this is not an exaggeration at all.
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#234 Post by GeM » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:49 am

Hell, I admire Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2's animations more than DmC. And this is not an exaggeration at all.
This mildly upsets me, Ninja Gaiden's animations are at the top of the top bro. If there's one thing you have to give credit for to Team Ninja it's in that department.
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#235 Post by ChaserTech » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:42 pm

GeM wrote:
Hell, I admire Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2's animations more than DmC. And this is not an exaggeration at all.
This mildly upsets me, Ninja Gaiden's animations are at the top of the top bro. If there's one thing you have to give credit for to Team Ninja it's in that department.
My bad, I didn't mean for it to sound too harsh.

I actually do admire Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2's animations moreso than DmC. They are fluid and more refined than DmC will ever be. Even though combat isn't as good as it could have been, it's still entertaining to watch imo.
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#236 Post by DelusionaryKiller » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:21 am

parkent wrote:Graphics: They're good, not the best and the character models are decent

Yeah, the graphics seem good, but the animations (especially the moves Dante makes) are pretty bad. I'd still think it's very decent overall in graphics.
Music: pretty bad its a buncha generic metal and guitar riffs
I heard it's something called agrotech. In other tracks, it's a genre similar to dubstep (according to dubstep fans).
Music similar to metal was used in the original DMCs. It was better than this.
story: From what I could tell... who cares no one plays Devil May Cry for the plot, so Fuck It
I solely came to quote this, but for some reason I thought it would be a rather useless post (which is pretty useless, considering I am late to this and you probably wont come back and see this).

If you think nobody cares about the story, you probably don't read much about DMC on the internet. Fans mentioned story a LOT of times. People want those plot holes covered and see another sequel. Even the DmC fans care about the story (which LOL leaked ending sucks).


not great but not terrible, its the type of game you buy once it drops below $20
I agree, even if you like DmC, I would highly recomend this game when the price drops or to get it used. Let NT and Crapcom fail.
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