Playing this for the first time

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Da Dood
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Playing this for the first time

#1 Post by Da Dood » Thu May 07, 2015 6:46 pm

So I started DmC a couple days ago... and... it's not bad...? O_O

Well, it's one giant mixed bag of a game, but still kind of enjoyable. The presentation and story are a disaster for the most part, especially Dante's look and personality. It feels like the game is trying to shove messages down your throat at every corner, and sometimes that happens literally (words popping on walls... Jeez...).

My main issue with DmC's gameplay is that it sucks having to hold L2 and R2 to switch weapons, and it's even worse 'cause these weapons are forced on you. Even during platforming, of which there is a considerable amount, you have to hold L2/R2 whenever the game wants. You're constantly telling your brain to focus on two separate concepts of control at once, because one side (L2) is mobility-oriented and the other side (R2) is strength-based. People who are pros at this game must have some insane muscle memory.

To be fair, dumb controls aside, the platforming is simple and stress-free so far (usually no enemies around), and I still find the combat entertaining when there's actual freedom to use anything you want. Rebellion feels good, and Aquila is the cheapest kind of fun, in every sense of the word (the word being cheap... it stuns and dices enemies with little effort and there's barely any cost for upgrading it).

Enemy design is average at best, but average is still better than DMC2. Unfortunately there's only like a handful of bosses in the entire game, right? The difficulty is pretty low (I'm playing on Nephilim, which is the highest difficulty available on a fresh file) and you're not required to figure out a lot of patterns or puzzles. Straight-forward as it gets.

I'm at Mission 15 out of 20. I'll probably finish tonight.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#2 Post by AlexxShadenk777 » Thu May 07, 2015 8:20 pm

Da Dood wrote:So I started DmC a couple days ago... and... it's not bad...? O_O
That's pretty much the fairest assessment of the game for everyone who wasn't a moronic fanboy.

Are you thinking about getting the Vergil campaign as well? He plays much better than Dante. He only swings Yamato around and his Summoned Swords are very subdued, and he only gets some poorly thought out 6 missions, but I say it's worth to try him at least once.
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Re: Playing this for the first time

#3 Post by Da Dood » Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

A friend of mine is actually pretty crazy about Vergil's gameplay in this. I've seen some of it and it looks interesting. But I don't know, although I am enjoying parts of the game, it isn't exactly inviting for a revisit at the moment. And I would imagine the DLC must be too expensive like most DLCs tend to be. But yeah, I'll think about it.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#4 Post by AlexxShadenk777 » Thu May 07, 2015 11:06 pm

For what it's worth, I thought the Vergil DLC was fairly priced. My above post may sound like a backhanded compliment but Vergil does genuinely play much better than Dante. One of the main things that made him really fun to play as was teleport-canceling Rapid Slashes in all directions, and the just frame inputs with Slash Dimension and Rising Sun (he still does it with Yamato, yes).
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Re: Playing this for the first time

#5 Post by Psychochild » Fri May 08, 2015 5:54 am

So I started DmC a couple days ago... and... it's not bad...? O_O
DmC:DE or Vanilla?
To be fair, dumb controls aside, the platforming is simple and stress-free so far (usually no enemies around), and I still find the combat entertaining when there's actual freedom to use anything you want. Rebellion feels good, and Aquila is the cheapest kind of fun, in every sense of the word (the word being cheap... it stuns and dices enemies with little effort and there's barely any cost for upgrading it).
The biggest issue I had is that it always felt like no matter where I was in the game, Dante was missing something to tie all of his melee systems together to keep me engaged in what was going on and/or to give his melee combat a good sense of weight and impact. Rebellion on paper is a real bad-ass of a weapon, but it always felt flat compared to previous Rebellions even though they do attack at similar speeds. Osiris actually has a good moveset that I would love in any other DMC game (DMC3 easily), but the damage was too low to make it an ideal option regularly and a passive damage buff for continuous use feels wrong. Aquila's entire movelist meanwhile is the worst besides Buy-In (Which I don't like to start with) and the heavy weapons didn't do anything for me.

I say this a lot, but they ripped every single interesting element they could off of Nero and left behind the one thing behind that really could have salvaged this game and made it potentially one of the better entries in the series; if Dante had a equivalent system for Exceed.

Oh. That and inertia. When you keep using Angel Glide out of habit to trigger inertia or to try to evade things and Dante's character model gets caught in the enemy and freezes, suspended and unable to do anything until the enemy moves or the game figures out where to eject Dante.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdyLahq ... u.be&t=24s

Drives me nuts.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#6 Post by Da Dood » Fri May 08, 2015 12:05 pm

Yep. This definitely wasn't designed to be a seamless free-style action game, that's for sure. It bothers me that I never have the incentive to use the elemental weapons in a strategic way, it's always because the game is forcing me. Although I do enjoy Aquila making the entire screen flashy.

I'm playing vanilla on the PS3. I actually got this game and Lords of Shadow 2 as a present, so maybe that has something to do with why I'm not being too hard on the game.

I'm at M17 now, was too tired to finish last night. For how poorly the presentation in this game is handled as far as characters and the overall tone of the story, it still has some really memorable scenarios. The tower level wasn't bad.

The pacing is a love-hate thing to me, because while it is nice that you're not fighting non-stop, they interrupt gameplay a bit too often with short scenes and still intros, and the level design is heavily scripted sometimes. Walking as your friend explains the situation might work in a slower paced game, but in this I just want to advance the game on my own. The comparison is frightening, and it's not that terrible here, but it reminds me of Other M and Ninja Gaiden 3 with the investigation walk crap.

I like the ninja enemies that disappear into portals. Those are fun. That said... I hope I don't run into a group of them... >_>

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#7 Post by Da Dood » Sat May 09, 2015 2:31 am

Finished DmC! Took me about 10 hours total.

I thought the game was glitching on the final boss (you know the part) and I had to look it up online. I could swear I'd tried DT but I must have hit the doppelganger instead of the real boss. Clutched it out with one hair of HP until I could DT again. That fight was pretty decent. I don't know how to dodge the phantom swords but they deal like no damage.

The big monster boss was possibly the QTE-est fight in the whole series, haha. Damn. That was straight out of God of War. His look and moves reminded me of Angra from God Hand.

Really not a bad game. It's not quite great either, though. I think it's pretty safe to say that this would have been better received if it had a different story and presentation (and maybe a director who's not so openly full of himself). It would still have a bunch of major flaws, but I think people would have been more forgiving of them if they were looking at classic badass Dante instead of try-hard graffiti Dante. For the record, I don't believe that's fair to the game, but it's not like they made an effort to woo us when they literally insult the entire fanbase in the first level.

Completion: I finished most missions with an A or S rank, a couple with SS and B. I found around half the collectables and beat 8 secret missions (I am holding a few keys though, including Ivory). This game's stats section is crazy detailed. It's like a debug checklist.

I'll replay the story on harder modes and maybe I'll try Vergil's DLC one of these days. Unlockable screen says Son of Sparda has different enemy placement and behavior. How different is the enemy behavior? Do they get new moves?

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#8 Post by Psychochild » Sun May 10, 2015 3:44 am

I thought the game was glitching on the final boss (you know the part) and I had to look it up online. I could swear I'd tried DT but I must have hit the doppelganger instead of the real boss. Clutched it out with one hair of HP until I could DT again. That fight was pretty decent. I don't know how to dodge the phantom swords but they deal like no damage.
I had the worst luck with bosses the first time through because I broke half of them on my first playthrough. Hunter's scripting broke because I shot at him when he did his far-away jump stomp while Mundus Spawn and Vergil both got stuck in loops where they moved around Dante not really doing anything letting me cheese through a lot of their respective fights. That said, Mundus Spawn is easily the stand-out boss in the game. It made great use of the whip without resorting to unnecessarily separating the boss arena into separate platforms to force that sort of traversal
It would still have a bunch of major flaws, but I think people would have been more forgiving of them if they were looking at classic badass Dante instead of try-hard graffiti Dante.
Speaking for myself I enjoyed it way more than DMC2, but I spent far too much time trying to find the fun here to agree that a lead change could've redeemed the experience. I found it to be a strangely regressive game that tries so hard to emulate and refine what made 3 successful with regards to its core combat loop, aerial combat, attitude, and enemy design that if DMC4 never came out, I could've been into it. Five years after DMC4 though? At that point DMC3 is not game I want to see refined further.

/At least DMC4:SE will soothe that itch a bit and some of the better changes from DmC are finding their way into that, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

//Vergil's DLC campaign itself is pretty mediocre which is a shame; Vergil's a character who benefits much more from DmC's systems than Dante does and there's some good ideas there.
Unlockable screen says Son of Sparda has different enemy placement and behavior. How different is the enemy behavior? Do they get new moves?
Nothing stands out in my mind, but it's been a while since I bothered with DmD. Much more aggressive though and the enemy encounter design becomes far more heavily weighted towards throwing in more of the end-game enemies in with greater regularity all over the game.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#9 Post by Da Dood » Sun May 10, 2015 4:42 am

Whoa, now that you mention it, I completely forgot that Mundus may have totally glitched out on me. When he did the lava puke attack where the whole floor turns hot, I couldn't figure out how to escape it other than dashing into the abyss (LOL). So after I destroyed both arms, he used the lava attack and I just kept jumping and shooting him with E&I (I was just jumping to avoid the floor damage). And I drained his entire final bar like that with absolutely no reaction from him.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#10 Post by AlexxShadenk777 » Sun May 10, 2015 10:01 am

"Mundus" always seemed to glitch out on me. God forbid you somehow die and use a continue, it's pretty much a guaranteed frozen boss battle. One time he simply disappeared after hitting 'restart from checkpoint' and I had to restart the whole mission altogether.

Da Dood, what did you think of each boss separately?
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Re: Playing this for the first time

#11 Post by Da Dood » Sun May 10, 2015 8:24 pm

First boss felt more like a tutorial. I don't remember much about him. :\

Second boss was the poison monster, right? It was okay. Not a lot of strategy to it, but it was enjoyable.

News guy reminded me of a cross between DMC3 Jester (dodging its attacks in a circular pattern), and... Bowser in Super Mario Sunshine with the power buttstomp plates. Ironically I thought this level had some pretty good presentation. I loved doing platforming on the TV news logo, and the fixed camera bits were quite creative (even though they were less than ideal camera angles for fighting).

Mundus Spawn was the only boss of the bunch that was legit challenging IMO. I enjoyed the fight. Probably would have enjoyed it better with more intuitive controls, especially for air dodges, but that's more of a general issue with the game. I died a bunch of times here, but it was a fun fight so I didn't mind.

Mundus' monster body or whatever felt super scripted, but maybe having literally skipped the last 1/3 of the fight with that glitch didn't leave the best impression. I imagine he must get aggressive and/or uses different attacks near the end. I didn't see any of it 'cause he just froze and I E&I'd him to death.

Vergil was fun, my favorite boss in the game. How do you properly dodge the phantom swords, by the way? They weren't doing any damage worth being worried about, but I get the feeling that they're gonna easily chip Dante to death on higher modes...

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#12 Post by AlexxShadenk777 » Sun May 10, 2015 8:33 pm

Bob Barbas is arguably the best looking boss in the game, and I guess I can agree with Mundus's Spawn being the most challenging, the damn thing actually puts up a fight and there's a nice balance between having to uncover its weakpoint many times in a battle and the lesser but fair damage it takes when not aiming for the weakpoint. If I'm not mistaken, it's the only boss battle with no real exploit. Vergil as a boss is acceptable, but it's annoying every 'stage' is immediately interrupted by a cutscene.

Mundus's last third is a complete joke. He just spits balls at you that you can deflect back at him, and each one deals ridiculous damage on him.

As for the summoned swords, you can deflect them the easiest with Prop.
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Re: Playing this for the first time

#13 Post by BassOmegaX » Sun May 10, 2015 11:13 pm

Da Dood wrote:I loved doing platforming on the TV news logo
I personally hated those sections in later playthroughs because they got boring really quickly. You know exactly what's going to happen and I'd rather just go straight to the boss.
I imagine he must get aggressive and/or uses different attacks near the end.
Actually no, he actually gets less aggressive after he loses his two arms. I think all he does is throw fireballs at you.
How do you properly dodge the phantom swords, by the way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5nEPrSMyM
Shotgun will destroy them. Prop to get rid of them as well as immediately force him into an attack.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#14 Post by Psychochild » Mon May 11, 2015 1:54 am

I loved doing platforming on the TV news logo, and the fixed camera bits were quite creative (even though they were less than ideal camera angles for fighting).
The TV News Logo didn't do much for me, but I absolutely loved the fixed camera angles. It's one of those weird things that since watching the DMC4 PC Benchmark, I've wanted the series to allow some sort of replay function with camera tools. Seeing the action pulled back really helps contextualize just how spectacular Dante's combat really is.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#15 Post by Da Dood » Mon May 11, 2015 1:38 pm

Yeah, the news logo thing is probably the kind of bit that'll get tedious in replays like Bass pointed. I just thought it was a pretty cool bit, and decent build up for the fight. They could have done more with it, for sure. But the way the messages in DmC are shoved down your throat, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the bosses was literally a TV, so I'm glad they stopped there.

Thanks for the tips, Alexx and Bass. Probably should have thought of Prop or Revenant for the swords when I was playing...

Also, how do you guys deal with the color-coded twin beasts, whatever their name is? I can never deal enough DPS to the blue one.

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#16 Post by AlexxShadenk777 » Mon May 11, 2015 3:58 pm

They're called Rages, Ghost Rages are the blue ones, Blood Rages are red.

The simplest way is to throw Round Trip at the Ghost Rage and wail on the Blood Rage. Launching with Arbiter, then charging a whole Beast Uppercut works fine, especially so after a Demon Dodge, which always gives you a damage boost. As for DPS, Osiris is quite good. There's an upgrade for it that boosts its damage the more you use it, and the fastest way to bring it up is with a long Prop > Shredder. If you want to damage it first, then launch it as soon as possible and wail on it with JCs. Like DMC Blades/Frosts, they can recover in mid air, but you can quickly get them back up in the air with Angel Pull > uppercut or whatever. It's quite methodical and sort of exciting for a while, but sooner or later it'll get tedious.

If you have DT, then use it. All enemies are launched and you can hit them with any weapon. You can use Buy-In wit Aquila in the air to pull everything toward you and just spam JC's with Osiris/Rebellion.
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Re: Playing this for the first time

#17 Post by BassOmegaX » Mon May 11, 2015 6:47 pm

Da Dood wrote:Probably should have thought of Prop or Revenant for the swords when I was playing
I think Prop doesn't really destroy the phantom swords, but forces enough parries for Vergil to teleport and attack.
Also, how do you guys deal with the color-coded twin beasts, whatever their name is? I can never deal enough DPS to the blue one.
I try to isolate them using Roundtrip. Then I try to launch them into the air and repeated use Eryx's air attack. You can jump cancel that attack, but I played this game way before I learned how to JC, so I never actually even bothered with JC. JC is probably better because if you dont kill them, they usually will recover in the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSwifVm ... be&t=9m51s

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Re: Playing this for the first time

#18 Post by AlexxShadenk777 » Mon May 11, 2015 7:38 pm

BassOmegaX wrote:
Da Dood wrote:Probably should have thought of Prop or Revenant for the swords when I was playing
I think Prop doesn't really destroy the phantom swords, but forces enough parries for Vergil to teleport and attack.
It does, I just forgot about the shotgun being a better choice. Normally I used Prop and it worked just fine.
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Re: Playing this for the first time

#19 Post by Da Dood » Wed May 13, 2015 11:54 pm

Thanks again for the help, guys. :)

I would jump right to Son of Sparda but I gotta take care of a massive game backlog. I'll come back to this sometime this year. Bought a bunch of PSN credits too so I'll probably get the DLC.

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